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Skiorpovenatordrkrlava by NashD1 Skiorpovenatordrkrlava by NashD1
The rocky faced horror show of Skiorpovenator. Say what?!? Abelisaurid madness!?! What is this type of black magic? antediluviansalad.blogspot.com…
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I don't really know why, but I really like this recostruction with all its soft tissues and chosen colour.

Interesting thoughts on omnivory ancestral to these guys. I'd expect it to have happened earlier though than your ancestral omnivorous Abelisaurid, looking at the feedback Andrea Cau gives in the comments, so that something inbetween a Limusaur and Abelisaur bauplan has its reduced lips, vestigal arms and maybe a bit more bulky body already. It hunts stuff already, but is on the smaller side so when it evolves to take down larger prey the neck becomes stronger so that when true Abelisaurids arrive on the scene, they're already the (mostly) carnivorous animals we view them to be and could rely on their necks instead of needing their arms.
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Hold that thought on the arms, I have something coming up on the dilemma of theropod arms….
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:icondontknowwhattodraw94:
Dontknowwhattodraw94 Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Okay!
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:iconbh1324:
bh1324 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
That doesn't look sacary more like a six... AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...hhh...gggg...gh

Pretty cool depiction really, it's funny because while many times Abelisaurids are depicted as very flamboyant animals I had been thinking recently about the possibility that some short limb Majungasaurids might had been pretty cryptic animals for a large terrestrial predator, the same head gear that can be considered flamboyant may also have helped to disrupt their outline.
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well I tend not to see a distinction between flamboyant display features and cryptic ability. The reason is that it all becomes pretty moot at night anyways when large predators have a distinct advantage over herbivorous prey species as I discussed here on this post: antediluviansalad.blogspot.com…

"Vitamin A is concentrated in animal tissue but scarce in plants. It is essential for night vision and because predators have a ready and pre-made form of it they will always have a greater capacity for night vision relative to herbivores. Not because herbivores would not benefit from good night vision but because of biochemistry. Yeah science!! If the present is the key to the past and the same unequal playing field occurred in dinosaurs (no reason to think that it didn't) there was likely a high bias of nocturnal theropods stalking the Mesozoic nights. T. rex - as an obligate hunter - certainly slots in nicely to this realm."

So I don't think that cryptic ability and flamboyant displays are mutually exclusive in theropods - especially structures that can inflate or engorge at times. What is interesting is why mammalian predators are so drab and uninteresting compared to theropod predators? 
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
Today's predatory theropods (regardless of whether they eat mammals or other theropods) aren't that colourful.

Caracaras have bald areas (display feature), and zone-tails have a bald cere that mimics a turkey vulture's head, but that's it.
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
You know I just took a pencil sketch and played around with different filters, tones and stuff. I've often done this with various drawings of mine, doing negatives etc etc., not to imply this >was the animals coloration<, but just for a more weird, atmospheric "impressionistic" tone. Also to take people out of their comfort zone. 

The hyper realism many strive for in paleoart "paleontography" if you will, is not what I always go for. More of an ambient, unsettling "all is not right in the world" atmospheric tone is what I aim for.
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Oh correction, I thought you were commenting on the filtered color of the Skiorpovenator. 

"todays predatory theropods aren't that colorful" Personally I agree that the bulk of the body would be muted and drab colors, maybe contrasting, but not hyper glow stick from head to tail.

However are you implying that the theropods that we know for sure had large osseous display crests, that these areas were also drab?

And, I'm pretty sure I've had this convo with you before, but if you live in a sauropod dominated habitat and can switch from seasonal gluts of eggs and sauropodlets to the occasional feast of dead sauropod the evolutionary imperative to be stealthy and cryptic switches to features that enhance mating success and which allow one to better defend, intimidate, and monopolize carcasses. Not hard to chase down sauropodlets, eggs, or carcasses. For both mating success and theatrical carcass dominance, display structures enhance your odds. Now I agree that bold colors were likely limited to the head, crest eyes etc etc but bold color contrasts (black against white) for startling visual displays are useful i.e. condors. In this aspect vultures offer much more utility than aerial hunting raptors - which need stealth, have contour feathers lining the head & neck, and routinely get pushed aside by vultures as well.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
You yourself mentioned that predators this size eating small prey (such as sauropodlets) is impractical.

Unless you mean juvenile sauropods and not sauropodlets
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
As an obligate specialist it is impractical. Not as a seasonal opportunist.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 3, 2017
That still means they would have to hunt juvenile and subadult sauropods the rest of the time, and sauropods weren't defenceless or even slowpokes.
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:icondinopithecus:
Dinopithecus Featured By Owner Edited Jun 1, 2017
This idea is weird...I'd definitely like it if this was scientifically tested by someone.

What's more, I really like what you said under "You Don't Want To Get Bitten By An Abelisaur". The only thing that used to confound me about abelisaurid jaw biomechanics was that kinetic, thin lower jaw. But then I was reminded how constrictor snakes have loosely-constructed skulls, jaws, and elongated teeth all around, yet these folks grab and hold onto their prey with their jaws.

And I really like what you said about supposed large-bodied terrestrial small game hunters, how they might not even be ecologically feasible due to the difficulties of solely being able to hunt prey that are smaller, possibly faster, able to accelerate faster, and more agile than you under the conditions of 1G. I never thought of that before.

How would this apply to something like Austroraptor though? It still moved like a terrestrial animal, it was big (~300 kilograms or so), it hunted aquatic prey, and it has no specializations for hunting big game.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
Isn't Austroraptor more like a Spinosaurus analogue than a heron?
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:icondinopithecus:
Dinopithecus Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
Did Austroraptor actually venture inside the water to catch its prey just like Spinosaurus?
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
Apparently it had the same web-foot situation found in Spino...

gwawinapterus.wordpress.com/20…
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:icondinopithecus:
Dinopithecus Featured By Owner Edited Jun 2, 2017
I don't see where Gwawinapterus says Austroraptor had webbed feet as per Spinosaurus. However, he does say that with its far larger size, it could have actually dived after prey, so if that's the case, it really clears up my query.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017
The Wikipedia page on Austroraptor mentions its bizarre foot shape, and even tho this was partially due to misassembling the bones, the feet are still rather unusual
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
"This idea is weird… I'd definitely like if it this was scientifically tested by someone."
The ultimate test would be the fossil record - what other test would you posit? I'm offering a potential reason for the unusual features of abelisaurids. I could be wrong.


Austroraptor - It likely hunted aquatic prey. I'm talking about terrestrial predators that take terrestrial prey. 
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:icondinopithecus:
Dinopithecus Featured By Owner Edited Jun 1, 2017
I should have said or specified that.

Whatever, my point is, future elucidations on the evolution of abelisaurids are something that I'd like to keep an eye out for.
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:iconacepredator:
acepredator Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017
So the croc face armour?
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Sort of that idea, there are loads of possibilities. The main take home message is that biting into an abelisaur face was like biting into a flat tire.
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:iconthedubstepaddict:
TheDubstepAddict Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Cool, but why the same wattles on every goddamn theropod
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Whyz notz? Dem too herpy derby for cha? Anyways dem not wattles dem "dino tufts", cross between gharil nose knob and caruncle - completely novel dino integument. XD
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:iconthedubstepaddict:
TheDubstepAddict Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Why not? Because there aren't a lot of birds with the same facial integument. They ate extremely diverse.
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Ho-hum. These critiques are not new and I have explained my reasoning before. From this post:antediluviansalad.blogspot.com…

"For starters it is a text book case of bad statistics. While it is true that if you measured the prevalence of naked skin/fleshy display structures in modern birds you would find a fairly low percentage - I would hazard less than 5% of birds if not less have such structures - but numbers without analysis and context is meaningless. What you have to do is look at the likely ecology of dinosaurs and find what birds best match. And if you look at the birds that best match dinosaurs in ecology I would pick the ones that are large (for a bird that would be partridge size), mainly terrestrial or at least feed on terrestrial items, and live in temperate to hot climates. I would not put aquatic birds and passerines high up in ecological correspondence but even some passerines and waterfowl sport naked skin structures. Among the birds I would put forth closest to non-avian theropods ratites, galliformes, "vultures", storks, hornbills, cranes and especially ground hornbills as some of the best matches. Once you start looking at the birds that best fit non-avian theropod dinosaurs ecologically and environmentally you start to see that such nekkid, fleshy, and skin derived display/thermoregulatory features are quite common. Nothing is 100% and not all of these birds fit the bill - but a large enough proportion of them do that we should be highly confident that such displays were at least as common in feathered dinosaurs. More common I would argue because non-flighted dinosaurs could afford heavier skin structures while birds have to be a bit more thrifty in terms of such heavy building material. Also, the compacted lifespan of dinosaurs and hyper-competitive sexual politics of dinosaurs would encourage the elaboration of skin derived display structures on both sexes. Also, and most importantly, because they tend to piss off some feather nazis and anything to take the piss out of them."

Then I look at :iconthedubstepaddict: art collection and I'm like, sigh, is this guys whole MO just to be a troll? I mean come on, your designs are like diarrhea of the mind. Really? Is this some big performance? Should I take you seriously when your main inspirations appear to be David Peters and anorexic flagellators?

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:iconthedubstepaddict:
TheDubstepAddict Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
1. I don't see what's wrong with David peters' art style, although his anatomical references ate fucking bonkers.

2. Who are you to tell me my stuff is diarrhea, when you have dinosaurs who we know of bit eachother in the faces running around with the softest display structures ever, when they would be a big risk to the animal's health
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:iconnashd1:
NashD1 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
1. "I don't see what's wrong with David peters' art style" that explains a lot

2. "Who are you to tell me my stuff is diarrhea" Hi my name is Duane Nash in case you were curious that's who I am. And your stuff does look like diarrhea. Painful, spouting, 4th of July, colorful, eviscerating diarrhea.

"softest display structures ever" Can you back up that claim? Skin can be very tough. I never claimed these skin structures are soft. Others have imposed that claim on them (as you are doing now). And besides you yourself douse your dinosaurs in large neck flaps, dewlaps, and other "soft" bits - yet somehow I am out of line? 

"when they would be a big risk to the animal's health"

Would they? Have you seen elephant seals and hooded seals fight. They have big ol' inflatable flesh and skin structures but it doesn't seem like a risk to their health. Are you familiar with the handicap hypothesis of social signaling? I would wager you are not. 

I don't go over to your page and chide you on your work, yet you put in the time and effort to do that to me. Did I request an art critique? Nope I did not. There are plenty of deviantartists around who are requesting art critiques, maybe your time will be better spent with them. 

In other words fuck off. 

Consider yourself banned. Not because you disagree with me but because you don't actually read what I link to and omit arguments.
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:iconthescipio:
TheScipio Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Xd
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:iconpaleojoe:
PaleoJoe Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2017  Student Traditional Artist
This is really neat, I am actually restoring a Ekrixinatosaurus which looks very similar to this.
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